I started to write a follow-up to the “Am I the ‘Not the Religious Type’ Type” post in an attempt to share, as promised, my experience at the first (first annual?) Center City Summit: Where Faith and Secular Culture Meet in Cambridge, MA. In high journalistic style, I sat at my laptop and laid out the details:
- More than 150 people from more than a dozen states
- Compelling speakers sharing a heart-felt desire to connect with and communicate with secular culture
- Interesting uses of models and psychological theories to help understand the variety of ways people approach (and retreat from) God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit
- Passionate times of prayer and conversation.
This observe-and-comment format is easy for me. I get to play the role of subject matter expert. “Here’s what I saw. This is what I liked. This is what I didn’t like. This is what they should keep doing. This is what they should do differently. This is why.”
And, there were a number of things I liked. I enjoyed learning more about Dave Schmelzer’s centered-set verses bounded-set model of faith, Carl Medearis’ stories about two-decades of communicating with Muslims in the Middle East, Charles Park‘s amazing story of making and losing $43 million and his wife Caroline’s loving attention to prayer and obedience.
There were also a couple of things that gave me pause. Like how easy it might be for people to misuse M. Scott Peck’s stage theory to perceive themselves as spiritually superior to people at ‘lower stages’ or what I perceive to be some potentially confusing uses of the word ‘mystic’. But, when push came to shove, it was clear to me that even if I reread the books and reviewed my notes, I was no subject matter expert. In fact, as I considered this post, I realized that I came away from the Center City Summit with more questions than I did answers.
And that’s a good thing.
This conference made me think. It made me wonder what questions my new, thoughtful friends at deconversion.com would have asked if they had been there. It made me wonder how other Christian “factions”, particularly those who are less familiar/comfortable with the notion of having a direct “experience” with the Holy Spirit would react. (This was my first time rolling with people who I would describe as mildly ‘charismatic’ or ‘pentecostal’.) It made me wonder about the notion of Christian “factions” in general, the wide variety of ways that people experience God and how that frequently leads to in-fighting among Christians and confusion for people who are on the outside looking in.
And that made me think about my friend.
This is a real friend not one of those metaphors. She has a name and a home and a family that is crumbling under the heavy weight of untreated addiction. She and I spoke by phone several times while I was away. She is hurting. She feels very alone. She says she has no hope. She tells me that she has always needed “a rock” upon which to anchor herself. She has relied on her parents, her husband, and–more recently–friendship. She says that friendship has been “a shining light” in her life, that it has provided the “strength, the truth and the love” that she has needed to see through deception and see her circumstances “as they really are.” Without that, she says, there is “only darkness.” This woman is one of those people out in “secular culture” that they were talking about in Cambridge. She grew up without God. She had many successes in her life without God. And now, in her darkest hour, she needs “something” that she describes by unknowingly and unintentionally speaking the language of faith–without God.
And that made me remember.
I recalled that God was working in my life long before I knew he was. Back in the early 1990s when I was the one whose family was falling apart. Back when I was the one who was hurting and alone and needed a shining light and an anchor. Back when I thought I had no hope. Back when I found hope in a recovery program through a relationship with a “power greater than myself” that turned out (after 7 years of Christ-bashing agnosticism) to be the same God (with the Son and the Spirit) I pray to now.
And, ultimately, it reconfirms my belief that God is real. That, while I believe that there is one way to the Father, there are millions upon millions of ways to the Son. Unorthodox ways. Irreverant ways. Unpredictable ways. Doubt-filled, messy, leave-it-to -the-last-breath ways that I don’t always understand or even agree with. Ways that don’t fit into 45-minute Sunday school sessions, line-by-line intellectual assessments of Bible passages or high-tech “culturally relevant” A/V productions. Ways that paradoxically challenge my notion of love and mercy in the face of discipline and hardship.
And so, despite the uncertainty, I choose to continue to pursue this God. This Jesus. This unexplainable Holy Spirit of God. I seek Him/It/Them in solitude and in the community that is created in church, online, and at wonderful conferences like the Center City Summit. I try to understand him in the face of my friend’s pain–and in the memory of my own.
Unbelievable.
August 24, 2008 at 4:45 pm
Joan–Your statement that “while I believe that there is one way to the Father, there are millions upon millions of ways to the Son” is so, so true. This needs to be said over and over and over again throughout the Body of Christ. There are uncompromisable salvation issues–and then there are many, many other issues where we diverge and become divided. Your thoughtful statement puts those issues in perspective and encourages unity withing the Christian church. I’ll be shamelessly borrowing your words for a long time! Thanks a million!
Gratefully,
Shannon
http://whatsgodgottodowithit.blogspot.com/
http://shannonsays.wordpress.com/
August 24, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Joan,
millions of ways to the son? Only one way to the Father? Jesus says that He is the way, the truth and the light. Also that He and the Father are one, and he who has seen me, has seen the Father. The bible does teach clearly that there is only one way and this way is the Son. No man comes to the Father but by me, says Jesus.
Thank you,
Kjell Lee
August 24, 2008 at 10:10 pm
Hi Shannon: Thanks for stopping by. Shameless borrowing is more than welcomed. Hope to see you here again soon.
August 26, 2008 at 10:44 am
Thanks for posting Joan. I love the 2nd to last paragraph. I agree. Life is messy. Relationships are messy. The world is messy. And yet despite all that, we are drawn to Him. However we get there isn’t important, it’s the fact that we get there. I heard a serman once where my pastor said “If God is for us…cased closed.” Everything in the world is going to get in the way (sin, life cercumstances, people), yet that won’t stop God from working in our lives. I’ve had that reafirmed this week in my own life, despite the fact that I continue to question Him. I hope your friend can find what she is seeking despite the messiness in her life. Thanks for the article!
August 26, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Hi Bobbi Jo: I read a great post on ConversantLife.com that talks about sticking with it when things get tough. I have not read a lot by this blogger, but this one resonated with me.
http://www.conversantlife.com/ucontent/serving-god-even-when-it-does-not-make-you-cool-ramblings-from-the-book-of-jeremiah
August 29, 2008 at 11:17 am
I love centred set thinking which, for me, is about the direction of travel, or our personal journey to salvation. For instance Jesus said to Pharisees in Matthew 21:31 “I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.”
In other words while (arguably) close to Jesus theologically, they were moving away from him relationally.
Re Kjelle’s comment. Yes there is one way to the father. However, every journey to faith is different so some people will experience Jesus as truth, some as light, some as the way and so on, all by the work of the Holy Spirit.
We can only encourage those seeking Jesus to find him by whatever route and means.
Blessings fromt the UK. Dan
August 30, 2008 at 1:12 pm
You are right, it sounds like something I would have enjoyed attending and participating with.
I don’t write much on the deconversion blog anymore, but I recently reviewed a book by Michael Dowd, in which he tries to bridge the gap between many faiths (and non-faith) with the science of evolution. Even though I was not crazy about the book, I share Dowd’s passion. I understand the Christian religion and mindset, but I do not wish to push them away even though I left that Faith. I do not wish to deconvert others either – rather – I wish to help my Christian friends understand those of us who have left the faith. We are extremely misunderstood, and most would rather hear from their pastor why we left than deal with us directly. That chasm between us is very painful for me, and I wish to somehow build a bridge between us. Joan, I hope conferences like the one you attended are helpful in that regard.
August 30, 2008 at 2:48 pm
HelsSailing: Thanks for stopping by. When I started this blog I never thought I would find myself knee deep in conversation with the deconverted community. And yet, I too feel the impulse to explore, among other things, the place where belief and former belief meet. I hope we can keep in touch.
Joan
September 1, 2008 at 6:57 pm
HIS and Joan
I find one of the challenges of people who believe in something and those who do not is there is no middle ground. It seems listening to you two at least there is some middle ground.
September 2, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Johnt: I believe that people with wildly different beliefs can find common ground, if not agreement, if we approach one another with love. Sounds corny even as I say it, but I do believe it to be true. That being said, love is a difficult thing to define and an easy thing to distort. One might show love with an embrace one day and by turning someone out another day depending upon the circumstances and what is best for the person you are reflecting love upon. The pursuit of a deeper understanding and practice of love is at the heart of my spiritual quest.
September 2, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Joan
I agree about the love aspect, but if either persons belief is an absolute then Im not so sure there is any common ground. Though I may be wrong 😉
September 2, 2008 at 2:06 pm
I think you might be right…if the common ground you seek is intellectual. But what if we attempt to meet on relational ground? That we might have drastically opposing viewpoints but love one another at the same time. I believe that if we are called to love our “enemies” (extend that to include those with whom we do not share belief) that we can, in fact, love them. Now putting aside our own pride, need for approval, need to be right and other defects of character to do it in a way that is honest and genuine? That, I think, is our challenge and our charge.
September 2, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Joan
The difference I think with you is that you are not claiming absolutely that your religion is the only way. I would venture a guess that would not be the case with many of your fellow church goers. I highly doubt they would be as easy going as you.
September 2, 2008 at 4:08 pm
John t:
Actually, I do believe that Jesus is the way to the Father. That is my faith as a Christian. I just believe that there are many ways that one might find their way to Jesus. I can share my beliefs and share my experience, but trying to “convince” people to believe what I believe is a doomed proposition. It never worked when people did it to me. On the contrary, the convincing combined with the lack of practicing what people preached made Christianity the last place I would have looked for support or comfort in the darker times of my life. So, I do my best to seek a deeper relationship with God and to be a loving friend and neighbor. I also seek to learn how to practice more difficult principles like loving people who are–for whatever reason–difficult for me to love.
That’s the plank in my eye…
September 2, 2008 at 10:50 pm
johnt says:
I know this was addressed to Joan, but I hope I can respond to this also.
I think the fact that I am married to a Catholic, and an admitted liberal Catholic at that, really helps keep my mind open regarding my own lack of belief in God. My wife is accepts my lack of belief because she knows I went about it properly. I read, I studied, I prayed, I consoled with fellow Christians, I debated with them, etc… and in the end I left Christianity simply because I did not think the facts supported the validity of the Faith. My wife’s church friends were kept telling her that I was ‘backsliding’, and that she could expect me to soon start falling into a life of sin. When I never ended up doing that, I think she could tell that I left for honest reasons and without a chip on my shoulder.
At the same time, I underrstand that my wife’s faith is part of who she is, part of her heretige and culture, and her own deeply held convictions. She has prayed to God her whole life, God has always taken care of her, and she is not about to leave God – no way no how. She has no reason to. For me to tell her that she is wrong for thinking the way she is, is no better than me as a Fundamentalist Protestant telling her she is wrong for her adoration of Mary (yes, I did do this to my great shame). Who am I to tell her how to worship the God she believes in? Further, who am I to tell her that she should not worship her God at all??
All the reasons that I left – Church history, critical approaches to Scripture, etc, etc, do not phase her faith since she has a whole different rationale that I did. She believes in God for one simple reason – she feels that her faith makes her a better person. Period. Does that make her right? I think so – as far as she is concerned, and since her faith is hers alone, that is what matters. I would never dare meddle in her life like that – and by extension, neither would I meddle in anyone else’s. I can share my beliefs, or lack of them, I can even give my reasons for belief and how I arrived at them – but I learned that there is always room for doubt. I believe I was wrong for over 40 years of my life regarding Christianity. I don’t think I am wrong now, but knowing my past history, I very well could be. In leaving Christianity, I learned a hard lesson about absolute dogmatic belief, and I am open, in fact willing, to have somebody show me that I am wrong.
September 3, 2008 at 8:40 am
HelsSailing: I am thrilled that you weighed in on this. Toe-to-toe debate on any topic rarely lands at understanding. I respect your journey and hope that we can learn from one another.
September 3, 2008 at 8:39 pm
HIS
I like your take on things. My wife has a strong faith, different from mine but very complimentary also. I could care less what people believe, I have concern when they tell me I need to believe it for the sake of my soul. Thanks for your thoughts. Just curious how old are you?
September 4, 2008 at 6:27 am
john t, I was born a few weeks after John Kennedy’s assassination.
September 13, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Joan,
BTW, your link to d-C is missing the “-” 🙂
Paul
September 13, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Hey Paul: Are you talking about the blogroll (which I just noticed was invisible)? I just checked it and think it is working. Thanks for having my back. Much appreciated.
September 14, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Joan,
I was referring to the link in this post above.
Paul